Photo of Tuyshtak (Mt Diablo) by Hitchster
Summary
No matter where we call home, the land beneath us has been in a long and constant relationship with people. Some of these people may be our ancestors, some may not. This episode is about how we move forward from a fragmented past; how we build community in our shared spaces; and how a women-led movement can bring collective healing to a deeply storied land. Come with us to Ohlone territory – from Tuyshtak (Mt. Diablo) to the East Bay, and meet the Sogorea Te’ Land Trust.
Show Notes
This episode features Corrina Gould, Johnella LaRose, Gavin Raders, and Siena Ezekiel.
Music in this episode was produced by VALSI, Ben Hamilton, Hildegard’s Ghost, Leucrocuta, Spencer W Stuart, Cat Can Do, Jose Guzman, and Sunfish Moon Light.
To learn more about the West Berkeley Shell Mound project, visit shellmound.org or watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZoapMtyRsA If you’d like to learn more about the Sogorea Te’ Land Trust, and pay your Shuumi Tax, go to sogoreate-landtrust.com. Or, if you live in Seattle, check out realrentduwamish.org to pay your rent. Eureka listeners, you can find the Wiyot’s honor tax at honortax.org. Curious about Planting Justice and their nursery? Check out plantingjustice.org and rollingrivernursery.com.
A lot of research goes into each episode of Future Ecologies, and we like to cite our sources:
Anderson, D. (2019, April 30). These Indigenous Women Are Reclaiming Stolen Land in the Bay Area. Yes!
Anderson, K. (2013). Tending the wild: Native American knowledge and the management of Californias natural resources. Berkeley, CA: University of California Press.
Cortes, A. (2019, October 23). New Crowdfunding Project Asks Seattle Residents to 'Pay Rent' on Native Land. The Stranger. Retrieved November 11, 2019, from https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/10/23/25488423/new-crowdfunding-project-asks-seattle-residents-to-pay-rent-on-native-land.
Margolin, M. (2014). The Ohlone way: Indian life in the San Francisco-Monterey Bay area. Berkeley, CA: Heyday.
This podcast includes audio recorded by acclivity, sandyrb, Tomlija, wjoojoo, and Inspector J (Helicopter Flyby, Distant, A.wav), protected by Creative Commons attribution licenses, and accessed through the Freesound Project. This podcast also contains music from the Project Gutenberg Library.
You can subscribe to and download Future Ecologies wherever you find podcasts - please share, rate, and review us. Our website is futureecologies.net. We’re also on Facebook, Instagram, iNaturalist, Soundcloud and Youtube. We’re an independent production, and you can support us on Patreon - our supporters have access to bonus monthly mini-episodes and other perks.
Future Ecologies is recorded on the unceded territories of the Musqueam (xwməθkwəy̓əm) Squamish (Skwxwú7mesh), and Tsleil- Waututh (Səl̓ílwətaʔ/Selilwitulh) Nations - otherwise known as Vancouver, British Columbia. It is also recorded on the territories of the Penelakut, Hwiltsum, and other Hul’qumi’num speaking peoples, otherwise known as Galiano Island, British Columbia.
Transcript
Introduction Voiceover 00:00
You're listening to season two of Future Ecologies.
Adam Huggins 00:06
Mendel.
Mendel Skulski 00:06
Hey.
Adam Huggins 00:07
Can I tell you a story?
Mendel Skulski 00:09
Sure. I mean, it's why we're here.
Adam Huggins 00:11
Alright, um, it begins, as so many stories do, in New York.
[Old timey accordion and seagulls]
Mendel Skulski 00:23
Of course...
Adam Huggins 00:24
It's May the 25th, 1911, and Anton Valiskov, 13 years old, steps off the boat, the SS Pannonia, and onto US soil.
Mendel Skulski 00:35
Pannoniiiaaa.
Adam Huggins 00:37
Pannonia.
Mendel Skulski 00:37
Okay. What is it?
Adam Huggins 00:39
It's like an interior Roman province, that is now present day Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia.
Mendel Skulski 00:46
Oh, it's not just a hot sandwich?
Adam Huggins 00:48
No. Yeah. Um. And he's actually from Dalmatia, which is another Roman name for the coastal area, just bordering Pannonia.
Mendel Skulski 00:55
Not the dogs that are in all fire stations?
Adam Huggins 00:58
That is exactly where the name for those dogs comes from, those dogs come from Dalmatia.
Mendel Skulski 01:03
Dalmations!
Adam Huggins 01:04
Anyway, Dalmatia, which is now known as Croatia, at the time, coastal Dalmatia, like many parts of Europe, is suffering economically. And things are especially bad there because Phylloxera, which is this sap sucking insect from the new world that basically destroys vineyards, had finally arrived in the area and it was decimating the local economy because grapes and wine were and are super important in Dalmatia.
Mendel Skulski 01:27
Mm hmm.
Adam Huggins 01:28
So, Anton arrives in New York. He's part of this wave of economic migrants from this part of the world. And as far as I can tell, he's heading west to join his older brother Jozo, who had arrived the year before and found work in Aberdeen, Washington, out on the Pacific Northwest. Now, Aberdeen was by all accounts at the time, a charming town full of gambling establishments and houses of ill repute.
Mendel Skulski 01:54
Huh.
Adam Huggins 01:54
Earning it the nickname the Hellhole of the Pacific.
Mendel Skulski 01:57
Oof.
Adam Huggins 01:59
Today Aberdeen is probably best known as Kurt Cobain's hometown. But back in 1910, in addition to being a little rough around the edges, it was also an economic Boomtown. If you go there today, the signs will inform you that it is the lumber capital of the world.
Mendel Skulski 02:14
Yeah, I remember we pass through there actually. And I would say, probably more qualifies as the clear cut capital of the world. It's… it's pretty extracted.
Adam Huggins 02:25
But back in the day, it really was the lumber capital of the world. But the climate and the topography on the south end of the Olympic Peninsula had produced these massive old growth forests and Anton and Jozo spent the better part of a decade alongside many other recent arrivals from Europe, turning all of those trees into wages to send home.
Mendel Skulski 02:43
They must have sent back a lot because it’s a lot more bust than boom these days.
Adam Huggins 02:48
Yeah. So fast forward to the early 1920s. To make a long story short, Jozo and Anton have weathered the First World War out in the western woods and they team up with their older brother, Matte, who is the third brother. And use the money that they've made in forestry...
Mendel Skulski 03:04
Hum... or Deforestry
Adam Huggins 03:06
Yeah, deforestry… to buy 30 acres of agricultural land in the Central Valley of California. They are Dalmatians after all. The Pacific Northwest is too wet and cold for them. And so they said about doing what they know how to do best, which is growing grapes. 30 acres of grapes, three brothers, and a new life in America.
[Old timey music with hip-hop scratch and beat]
Mendel Skulski 03:44
This is starting to sound familiar.
Adam Huggins 03:47
Yeah. Incidentally, they got out of Aberdeen just in time. The Depression hit the logging industry hard and Aberdeen never really recovered, and that's why it looked the way that it did when we passed through. Anyway, things are good for a while. Jozo marries and brings over his sweetheart Ivanika. And over the course of several years, they have three daughters—three brothers, three daughters.
Mendel Skulski 04:10
Good symmetry.
Adam Huggins 04:13
Slavenka, Mary and Anka are the daughters. They're part of this whole expat Croat community living just outside of Fresno, California. Sadly, Anton, who I guess we began to start with, and Matte both pass away within a few years of each other, leaving Jozo and Ivanika alone to manage the farm. The daughters grow up and they get married, and the youngest daughter Anka moves with her new husband Don to the Bay Area. Don graduates from UC Berkeley and goes to work for Chevron. And they settle down in the Diablo Valley at the foot of Mount Diablo.
Mendel Skulski 04:45
I can't imagine being inspired to live anywhere called Diablo anything. [Whispering] Is this your family?
Adam Huggins 04:52
Does this sound familiar?
Mendel Skulski 04:53
This is your family.
Adam Huggins 04:54
Totally my family.
Mendel Skulski 04:57
Don is your grandfather.
Adam Huggins 04:59
That's right.
Mendel Skulski 04:59
Yeah - aw.
Adam Huggins 05:01
Yeah, okay, this is this is the story of how I came to be.
Adam Huggins 05:06
Um, I grew up in many parts of California. But the part of California that is most deeply imprinted on me is my grandparents home in the Diablo Valley, in the shadow of this beautiful rugged mountain wilderness in what is now a sea of suburbia. And it's a mountain that I was always a little afraid of, with its imposing presence, and its ominous name, Diablo.
Mendel Skulski 05:29
Diablo. So he brought us all the way from Dalmatia to Cascadia, I guess from the Central Valley in California to the Diablo Valley. Where are we going next?
Adam Huggins 05:42
So I'm telling the story about this one branch of my family tree. The most recently arrived branch as far as I can tell, because I think it's a very common, almost archetypical settler story. My immediate ancestors uprooted themselves and came to this continent and they pulled wood out of the ground in Washington and they pulled grapes out of the ground in California. And they were part of this giant machine that continues to pull oil out of the ground to this day. From the forest to the farm to the city to the suburbs. And now here, that's how I came to be sitting here with you making this podcast.
Mendel Skulski 06:15
Exposed roots.
Adam Huggins 06:17
So... so that's just one story. And it's I think it's a common story. It links me to this place and to my ancestors. But, but we're here because I want to introduce you to someone who has a very different relationship to this place. And a very different story about Mount Diablo.
Mendel Skulski 06:33
Okay.
Corrina Gould 06:34
[Introducing self in Chochenyo.] My name is Corrina Gould. I am the spokesperson for the Confederated villages of Lisjan and the cofounder for Indian People Organizing for Change and the Sogorea Te' Land Trust.
Mendel Skulski 06:47
So, what is the Sogorea Te' Land Trust?
Adam Huggins 06:50
We'll get to that a little later. It's story time. Remember?
Mendel Skulski 06:53
[Laughing] Okay.
Adam Huggins 06:55
Corrina's ancestors live in what we now think of as the Bay Area, since time immemorial. And they knew Mount Diablo as Tuyshtak. So we're gonna sit cross legged for a moment and pretend we're fourth graders again.
Mendel Skulski 07:08
No problem.
Corrina Gould 07:10
One of the things I do when I talk to fourth graders is to really talk about the sacredness of what that place is 'Tuyshtak' and how it got the name Mount Diablo, and how it really changes how you view someplace. When you think of it as the mountain of 'the devil' or you think of it as the place of creation.
[Dramatic Violins]
Adam Huggins 07:35
This story begins in the mission era, when Corrina's ancestors were essentially being forced into indentured servitude in the Spanish missions.
Corrina Gould 07:42
So we have to understand that many times, uh, when people were here in our territory, the Spanish missions and missionaries and the Spanish military they were often chasing our ancestors when they decided that the missionary system wasn't working for them. So my ancestors were being chased somewhere in Soc Lon area, so that's the Contra Costa area. And they got to the bottom of what is now called Mount Diablo, and they lost my ancestors. So there was all kinds of thick brush and there was no way for them to get through it. And so when they wrote down that they had lost the ants, my ancestors, they said there was no way that these Indians could have gotten away so the only explanation was that there was a devil at the top of the mountain that pulled them up. And so the name Mount Diablo stuck. When I explained it to kids, it's like, well, you know your neighborhood really well. You know your school really well. You know your house really well. And so you know, kind of the ins and outs of how to get around and so for thousands of years, my ancestors had lived there in that area so they knew how to get around what is now called Mount Diablo.
Mendel Skulski 08:56
It sounds like Corrina's ancestors really... uh, bedeviled those Spaniards.
Adam Huggins 09:01
Oof.
Mendel Skulski 09:01
Hehe...Forgive me
Adam Huggins 09:02
What's kind of funny is that the Spaniards wrote down Monte del Diablo, which probably actually meant thicket of the devil hmm because the word monte can refer to either a mountain or a thicket, and they were definitely in the ‘thicket’ of it.
Mendel Skulski 09:16
Ahh your turn.
Adam Huggins 09:17
So it's actually the Americans who end up buying what is now called California from Mexico who think the Spaniards were referring to the mountain.
Mendel Skulski 09:24
Ohh Okay.
Adam Huggins 09:25
Tuyshtak.
Mendel Skulski 09:25
Right.
Adam Huggins 09:26
And not just some thicket they were stuck in, hence, Mount Diablo.
Mendel Skulski 09:31
Okay.
Adam Huggins 09:32
And I was one of those fourth graders back in the 90s terrified of that devilish place.
Mendel Skulski 09:37
Haha and here you are still a fourth grader. So, uh, Corrina mentioned that Tuyshtak is the site of her creation story. As one perspective of that place what is what does that name actually mean? What is Tuyshtak mean?
Corrina Gould 09:55
The Holy Place.
[Funky acoustic music]
Mendel Skulski 10:05
So one fourth graders nightmare is another fourth graders creation story.
Adam Huggins 10:10
We can stop being fourth graders now.
Mendel Skulski 10:12
Oh, okay.
Adam Huggins 10:13
You know, there are five sacred mountains in the Bay Area that I know of one in the south, one in the north, one in the west, and two in the east. We started with Mount Umunhum in the south last season.
Mendel Skulski 10:23
Right, I remember.
Adam Huggins 10:25
And we talked about repatriation and restoration. Now we're going to Tuyshtak in the east, and today we're going to talk about rematriation and reparations. Stick around.
Introduction Voiceover 10:36
Broadcasting from the unceded, shared, and asserted territory of the Penelakut, Hwlitsum, and other Hul’qumi’num speaking peoples, this is Future Ecologies, where your hosts - Adam Huggins, and Mendel Skulski - explore the shape of our world through ecology, design, and sound.
Adam Huggins 11:08
Okay, so to start off, we have to get the lay of the land and straighten some things out. Because, get this mental settlers made a lot of incorrect assumptions about Corrina's ancestors when they arrived and started writing things down.
Mendel Skulski 11:21
Huh, imagine that.
Adam Huggins 11:22
Corrina and her ancestors are part of a whole complex of villages and family groups that historically spanned the entire Bay Area from what is now Vallejo in the north, down to Soledad in the south. Collectively, they've been referred to as Ohlone peoples.
Corrina Gould 11:37
So when we look at the history of what Ohlone is, Ohlone is a generic name. And we took on that name as a way of getting away from the word Costanoan that was given to us by the Spanish. And in none of the old text does it really denote that we were eight different organizational tribes within eight different language groups. We had eight different creation stories and our songs and our dances were different. And I think that now in history, it's given us the ability to actually take back our own names or traditional territorial names. And so, for us, Lisjan actually talks about the creek that we're from, which is now San Leandro Creek in the Bay Area. It sits between the two territories of Huchiun and Carquin and my ancestors are on both sides of that Creek. I'm responsible to this land. And so I've always been here. My ancestors have always been here since the beginning of time.
Adam Huggins 12:35
The territory of Huchiun that Corrina is describing comprises the majority of the heavily urbanized East Bay Area, which includes the cities of Oakland and Berkeley in Alameda, Emeryville, Albany and Piedmont.
Mendel Skulski 12:48
There's a lot, there's a lot going on there.
Adam Huggins 12:49
It's a lot of cities. Chocheño is the traditional language of this territory, which was and is a politically complex landscape.
Corrina Gould 12:58
So in no time during history, was there an overarching one tribal government. And so today in the Chocheño speaking language area, there are four different tribes that work together, sometimes and not so much together other times. So, Muwekma is one of those tribes. The Lisjan, Confederated villages of Lisjan, Humarin, and Ohlone tribe, Inc, are the four tribes that are within the Chocheño based area.
Mendel Skulski 13:24
Wow, this is complicated, even coming from the Pacific Northwest.
Adam Huggins 13:29
Yeah, it's, it's complex. And this is just one of the eight language areas within Ohlone territory. And we're talking about the Bay Area. There are around 10 million people living in this territory now, from all over the world. There are actually more indigenous people from elsewhere in North America living here than there are Ohlone people.
Mendel Skulski 13:47
That's wild.
Adam Huggins 13:48
The reason that I bring all of this up is that if you ask most people living in the Bay Area, they have no idea whose traditional territory they're living in. And if they're familiar with the Ohlone at all, they're probably not familiar with the different language groups and tribal organizations and territory names. And, and that's due in part, to the fact that not a single one of the many modern Ohlone tribes is federally recognized.
Mendel Skulski 14:12
So I'm Canadian What? What does that mean?
[Inquisitive Music]
Adam Huggins 14:18
Basically, it means that the US government acknowledges the existence of a given tribe as a nation onto itself, and forms a nation to nation relationship. And this comes with a whole host of benefits and has historically been accompanied by the setting aside of reservation lands.
Mendel Skulski 14:35
Right.
Adam Huggins 14:36
To date, there's not a single federally recognized tribe within Ohlone territory, which is a huge territory. There are no treaties governing the territory and the relationships between the Ohlone and the government. Like much of British Columbia, the Bay Area is essentially unceded territory.
Mendel Skulski 14:53
Hmm. How is that possible?
Adam Huggins 14:56
Basically with the stroke of a pen.
Corrina Gould 14:59
So I grew up knowing that I was Ohlone, and that my ancestors had been enslaved both at Mission Dolores in San Francisco and Mission San Jose and Fremont. We are a part of a group that was from the Verona band. And then in 1928, I believe it was the government stopped having government to government relationships with us. And then we were not recognized by the federal government anymore.
[Funky Jazz]
Corrina Gould 15:29
So there was nothing that was an act of Congress, nothing by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, it was just that there was a drunkard who was in charge that decided that for all intents and purposes, we didn't exist anymore, and there was no need for the federal government to create a pot of money to buy land for the homeless Indian population. And that's really how we lost being recognized on this land by the federal government.
Mendel Skulski 15:55
Whoa, all it took was one drunkard?
Adam Huggins 15:58
I, I can't confirm or deny the drunkard aspect but ... but I can say that in 1927, the Indian agent Lafayette Dorrington, vested with the responsibility to procure reservation lands for the Verona band and over 100 other bands across California, instead decided with the stroke of his pen to unilaterally sever all ties and responsibilities to these communities. His actions have been described as gross negligence and crass indifference. But nevertheless, he was able to effectively make 135 different bands just disappear. So, so none of the groups in Ohlone territory have yet managed to regain the recognition they lost that day, in large part because the US government places the burden of proof on unrecognized tribes to show continuous descent, government culture, and territorial occupation.
Mendel Skulski 16:49
You're saying that the US government, after forcibly dislocating a tribe, disrupting their language and their culture and their government, more or less denying their existence says to them, okay, if you want us to recognize you, then you need to show that you've consistently maintained everything that we've been actively trying to take from you for the past two centuries?
Adam Huggins 17:19
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Mendel Skulski 17:20
That's… absurd!
Adam Huggins 17:23
Yeah. And for listeners that aren't super familiar with the genocidal history of California, listen back to Episode 1.2 of our first season. We discussed this in depth with Valentin Lopez of the Amah Mutsun, which is another Ohlone tribal band. Suffice it to say that by mid-century, the Ohlone had lost their recognition, lost their lands, their sacred sites artifacts, and essentially gone into hiding to avoid being further targeted, harassed or killed. And slowly since then, they've emerged from hiding and gotten organized, and even despite centuries of genocide and the deep contradictions of the recognition process, the Chocheño speaking Ohlone are clearly still here. They haven't gone anywhere.
Corrina Gould 18:04
And luckily, my great grandfather Jose Guzman was one of the last speakers of the language and was able to hold on to that language. And I feel like there are, there were people that were historically put in place, what I believe by my ancestors, in order to hold this information for us to be able to survive today. So JP Harrington was one of those people. He was a linguist who many people think went crazy trying to put down the language for many different tribal people that were going to sleep. And so one of the people was my great grandfather. And so we're lucky to have JP Harrington's notes, and then also that he taped my great grandfather on wax cylinder and we found those songs at the Smithsonian in Washington, DC.
[Wax Cylinder Recording of Corrina's Great Grandfather singing]
Corrina Gould 19:07
He along with this other guy named Nels Nelson, who I think was kind of nutty, too, was an archaeologist that worked for UC Berkeley, and in 1909 knew that there was so much development happening in the Bay Area, then, that the sacred sites are, our shellmounds would disappear. And so he created a map of 425 shellmounds, that ring the entire bay area. Our ceremonial places and cemeteries. Our village sites. And so it's because of the work that they did, before we were born, before we were thought of, um, before my parents were born, that we were able to take this information and to recreate these places and to talk about them and to do our spiritual obligations to these places, um, and to pray there.
Mendel Skulski 19:59
So these, these shellmounds that she's talking about by another name, you might call those shell middens. Right?
Adam Huggins 20:07
Totally, which are?
Mendel Skulski 20:09
They’re like, massive accumulations, uh, agglomerations of discarded shellfish shells and other human detritus, um, signs of the kind of life that was going on in an area near, near village sites near continuously or discontinuously occupied places over many hundreds and thousands of years. I—often these places were used as cemeteries or sacred sites. And we go into them in some detail back in Episode 1.2.
Adam Huggins 20:43
We did indeed.
Mendel Skulski 20:44
With the Wiyot.
Adam Huggins 20:45
So over 400 of these mountains, some of them incredibly massive, were mapped around the edges of the San Francisco Bay, which gives you an idea of just how many Ohlone people lived there and for how long. And it's these shell mountains that start Corrina on a journey that will lead her to help found the first women-led indigenous land trust in North America. To tell this part of the story, we need to introduce you to Johnella LaRose. She comes from the Shoshone-Bannock tribe from Fort Hall, Idaho, and she's been living in the Bay Area and working with Corrina for decades.
Johnella LaRose 21:17
In 1999. We were created, called Indian people organizing for change, and we were doing community organizing in the Oakland area. I didn't know anything about California Indians honestly. I didn't know what a shellmound was. And we came across the Emeryville shellmound that was being developed. It had already been developed actually—it had been wrecked. It used to be a dance hall. There used to be a dance hall that sat on top of it, which is very strange, because, you know, it's a burial site. It's a living mound, you know, they leveled it off and put a dance hall on top of it which, you know, dancing on dead people is very strange.
Mendel Skulski 21:53
Uhh ... Michael Jackson.
Adam Huggins 21:54
Yeah...
Mendel Skulski 21:55
Anyone?
Adam Huggins 21:55
And, and, since you mentioned it, haunted buildings constructed on so called Indian burial grounds were part of so many horror movies in the 1980s.
Mendel Skulski 22:04
Yeah, that's a bit of a trope.
Adam Huggins 22:05
The Shining, Pet Cemetery, Amityville—that this trope has been heavily parodied since.
Johnella LaRose 22:09
That was raised, that was leveled, and then it became sure Sherwin Williams paint factory, then the finally that was abandoned. And so the property in Emeryville wasn't really worth much at the time. You know, it was a lot of vacant lots. Now, of course, it's all built up and became prime land, you know, prime real estate. And they were going to build the Emeryville mall. We call it the dead mall.
Adam Huggins 22:32
And now we've gone from The Shining to Dawn of the Dead territory.
Johnella LaRose 22:37
We read about it in the newspaper. We're like, what, you know, we couldn't believe it. And at that time, I was a Union Carpenter working for the Carpenters' Union. And so we had a, there was a non-union drywall company on one side of the site that we were picketing, and on the other on the other side of the site was Indian People Organizing for Change picketing the site. So it's really a lot of stuff going on. I was running back and forth, talking to my boss about this thing is happening, you know, and he was all for it because the more pickets, they were happy, right? So. So it was just really kind of a madhouse, but we couldn't, of course, stop the construction. It was just like this big machine that was just happening, you know, but at the time they found 127 bodies in the, which is now the IKEA parking lot, they found many bodies, which is now the Forever 21. And Victoria's Secret. Many bodies all over there. And a lot of them were infants. And then some of the bodies were taken to UC Berkeley, and many of them were taken to the dump. And I know this because I talked to some of the workers and I said, “do you know they were hauling black plastic bags?” And it doesn't sound real, but it is true. It is true. And I asked him, he says, “oh, yeah.” You know, we were like, after all was said and done, we started a, what we call the, you know, the Black Friday, that Dead Mall Protest. This is our think this is our 20… 20th year. The day after um, Thanksgiving, is when we have this protest, and it's grown and grown and grown and grown to like 400 people. It's getting like really massively huge you know, but just to say that, you know, all cemeteries are sacred and that, you know, this is a cemetery.
Voice On Megaphone 24:19
Emeryville Mall is built on a 35 hundred year old sacred sites. Respect Indian rights! Respect our sacred sites! Don't shop the mall! Do no shop the mall! Respect our rights! Respect our ancestors! Respect our dead! Respect our burial grounds!
Adam Huggins 24:38
I am driving on Shellmound Street. Down here in Emeryville, making a left turn on a street called Ohlone Way.
[Disturbing music in the background]
Adam Huggins 25:00
I have been to the Emeryville mall, which is a mall right near the train tracks, somewhat infamous because it was built right on top of one of the largest midden sites in the Bay Area. But now all that's left are overpriced shops and this kind of Memorial pocket park with some tasteful plantings and plaques that talk about what used to be there. And a miniature, decorative, artificial midden, if you can believe that.
Mendel Skulski 25:28
I hate that I can believe that.
Adam Huggins 25:33
[Laughs] So after the battle in Emeryville, Johnella has this idea.
Johnella LaRose 25:38
In 2005, I had this idea. I don't know how it came to me. But I had this idea. We should walk the mounds, the shellmounds, and there are 425 of them. So we walked the whole Bay, which is almost 300 miles from from Vallejo across the Golden Gate Bridge and into Marin. And so we walked for 19 days, and we were walking and all of these people started to join us and by the time we got around, it was like, oh, 150 people, but they came from all over the world is very strange. We were like, where did you guys come from? Nova Scotia, Cape Verde, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, it was like wild, like, how did you guys hear about this thing? You know?
Corrina Gould 26:16
And we walked to many of the 425 shellmounds throughout that and we stopped at them and we prayed and recognized our ancestors. And um, what we found were, you know, parking lots and railroad tracks and bars and schools and apartment buildings and streets. But we knew that whatever was on top was only a smidgen of what was laid beneath. And so we knew that our ancestors were there and we prayed there.
Johnella LaRose 26:41
And when we did that, it was really interesting. A lot of these people came from all the different neighborhoods and said, Oh, I know I found some shells in my backyard or I found some grinding stones and they gave us all this great information. And so it was their family history also.
Adam Huggins 26:57
So, so Corrina and Johnella had been visiting these places and re-storying them.
Mendel Skulski 27:02
Uh, I love that word.
Adam Huggins 27:03
And gaining recognition and support for protecting these areas. And that's when the city of Vallejo decided that they wanted to build a new park on a long neglected and partly developed shellmound that had been an important trading and ceremonial site for Ohlone people.
Johnella LaRose 27:20
So on April 14, we said, well, we’re just, we all we were sitting around at this coffee shop that we all... Mugs Coffee Shop in Vallejo, we always met there. There's eight of us, and we're sitting around, there’s four women and four men, and we looked at each other and we said, what are we going to do about this? You know, what are we going to do? And at the very same moment, everybody just said, we're gonna take it.
Music 27:41
[‘This just got real’ music—first a drop, and then a baseline high]
Johnella LaRose 27:47
The next day, we all showed up, and we put the word out, and we thought, okay, we're gonna get arrested or get the, you know, hell beat out of us. There's only eight of us. 150 people showed up. And because we're American Indians, Homeland Security showed up, the FBI showed up. The Coast Guard was out in the bay, we're used to this, you know? it's like, it's been like 500 years of this, you know? It's gonna take a lot more to scare us than that, you know? And we decided at that point that we were just going to hold it as long as we could. So we held it for 109 days. And at the time, the city of Vallejo was bankrupt. So they really didn't want to come in and arrest us. First we thought we were going to get arrested, like, oh, they're gonna come in and, you know, really, you know, mess with us. Then there came a point where we couldn't even get arrested, no matter what we did. Hahaha. But we decided, we had this whole system set up, where when the police would come in, they were there every day, and we were—the FBI was there, they would come and we would just stand around the fire in silence, you know, in prayer, or we would sing. The police were really like, what's going on here? And we’d just say, you know, can you step back? We’re praying. And they would step back. I mean, it's really wild and they would just try and like, get right in there and muscle us a little but we've been like, oh, no, no, you gotta stand back. You guys stand back, you know?
Mendel Skulski 29:10
So how did it all workout, what happened?
Adam Huggins 29:13
After 100 days of the occupation, keeping the sacred fire burning, the city of Vallejo finally gives in.
Mendel Skulski 29:20
Victory!
Adam Huggins 29:20
And settles to create a cultural easement for the park, But, not with Johnella and Corrina and the other IPOC occupiers.
Mendel Skulski 29:30
Oh. Well, with who then?
Adam Huggins 29:32
With a federally recognized tribe.
Adam Huggins 29:34
Aha!
Adam Huggins 29:35
Called the Yocha Dehe Wintun based out of the Central Valley. And this tribe didn't have such a direct connection to the place, they just happen to be the nearest federally recognized tribe, so they ended up allowing some of the development that Johnella and Corrina had been fighting.
Mendel Skulski 29:49
Wow.
Adam Huggins 29:51
So, bittersweet victory. But, um, the experience of holding that sacred space for all those months coming together, coupled with the city's decision to only play ball with a federally recognized tribe, it changed things for Johnella and Corrina.
Mendel Skulski 30:08
Yeah, no doubt.
Johnella LaRose 30:09
We had this idea Oh, we're activists we're gonna, we're gonna do this thing we're gonna go in and save the land. But really it didn't work out that way. It really like, the land saved us. It really taught us a lot during that time. And I think it just moved us to this whole other place in our thinking because you know, you're living outside, you know. And so we left Sogorea Te' and I think it was a month or two later, Corrina was invited to this meeting, Native American Land Trust meeting in Southern California.
Adam Huggins 30:37
She had been invited by UC Davis, Professor Beth Rose Middleton, and she had no idea what to expect. So when she arrives, she realizes that that she is literally one of the only women there. And she's talking to this man named Dune Landguard, who is the founder of the Native Conservancy Land Trust in Alaska, and has an incredible story in his own right. Look him up!
Corrina Gould 30:59
So is this a boys club? And he said, yeah, pretty much. And I was like, that's interesting. I came back and I talked to Johnella.
Johnella LaRose 31:07
And so like she says, oh, man, this is crazy. I couldn't believe this meeting. So she came back and she says "let's start a land trust." I'm like, okay, what's that? I know, we're still trying to figure that out. What's that?
Mendel Skulski 31:19
Yeah, I'm with her. What is the land trust?
Adam Huggins 31:22
Fancy you should ask. I actually work for a land trust as my day job.
Mendel Skulski 31:28
You have another job?
Adam Huggins 31:31
Yes. Can we talk about this later?
Mendel Skulski 31:35
Fine.
Adam Huggins 31:36
Okay.
Mendel Skulski 31:38
We're going to talk about this later.
Adam Huggins 31:40
Yeah. So okay. A Land Trust is basically a nonprofit. A charitable organization that's committed to the long term protection of the natural and/or cultural heritage of land. That's from the dictionary. If Corrina and Jonhnella had had a land trust when Vallejo finally gave in on Sogorea Te' they might have been able to hold that cultural easement themselves.
Mendel Skulski 32:02
And it wouldn't have gone to that federally recognized tribe instead?
Adam Huggins 32:06
Correct. So Corrina immediately recognized that this was the direction to go.
[Plucking Violin]
Corrina Gould 32:10
Because it was a tool that we could have used to save Sogorea Te’. And then decided that it needed to be an indigenous women's lead Land Trust. Not just an Ohlone women's lead Land Trust, but Indigenous women, because through re... relocation policies of the government, so many women have been moved here. We’re now, the third and fourth generation of people that have not been able to go home to their own territories. Their children and their grandchildren live here. We have relationships with all of these people. And how is it that we can create these spaces also, for them to have ceremony? To have foods that they traditionally had in their own homelands? A way for us to teach our children songs—and women are their first teachers and we're the ones that hold the songs for the plants and for the medicines and for the waters, and that it's our responsibility. And when we look in the broader picture of men holding land, what has happened to the land in the world has also happened to women's bodies. And so there's this correlation of the land being raped and women's bodies being raped, and us being tossed aside and not being able to take care of ourselves. And it's important for that medicine to come back. But also because our traditional healers have also said that this is the time now for women to stand and take their rightful place in the world and to work with our brothers side by side in order to fix what we have destroyed as human beings in order for us to survive. And so it really is about the rematriation of land.
Mendel Skulski 33:50
Rematriation.
Adam Huggins 33:51
Rematriation.
Mendel Skulski 33:53
Yeah, I've never heard anyone use that word before, but I get it.
Adam Huggins 33:59
Yeah, you won't find 'rematriation' in the dictionary. It’s ... people talk about their fatherland or their motherland. But when it comes to returning lands or stolen objects to people.
Mendel Skulski 34:10
Or even returning people to their homeland?
Adam Huggins 34:14
We use the word repatriation, Latin, Patria - Fatherland. Corrina and Johnella and other indigenous women across what some might call, "Turtle Island" are starting to talk about rematriation.
Mendel Skulski 34:27
Yeah, it's a beautiful idea. But how do you actually go about rematriating land?
Adam Huggins 34:35
Well, they were about to get started but before they could, something monumental happened, and caught everybody by surprise.
News Reports About Standing Rock 34:46
A protest in North Dakota continues to grow. All to prevent a pipeline from being built next to the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe sacred land. Over 100 Native American tribes have joined the fight against the project. [Protestors chanting “we’re still here”] For months Standing Rock advocates calling themselves "Water Protectors" have camped out around the construction site through tear gas and blizzards.
Corrina Gould 35:13
Okay, let me go back a little bit. When Standing Rock happened it was a place where people could actually imagine there could be something different in this world.
Johnella LaRose 35:23
And so then here comes Standing Rock, right? You know, here comes Standing Rock. And I think the walks, the shellmound walks, the occupation of Sogorea Te' and then you know, all of the things that happened before that, that our ancestors who did you know? Alcatraz and Wounded Knee and all of those things, you know? I was brought up in that, I was brought up in the American Indian Movement. So when we got to Standing Rock, I mean, it was just crazy. You know, you have your own story about Standing Rock. But it just shifts your mind in such a way that you're never the same. You're never the same. And when we went through the gate in Standing Rock, I went there three times, we drove through the gate. They said, You know, I think I'm gonna cry. They said, um, welcome home, you know? Welcome to the real world. And that's what it was. It was like the real world.
Adam Huggins 36:17
Standing Rock, like Idle No More before it in Canada, was the moment that indigenous movements to defend the land and assert sovereignty, finally broke through to mainstream consciousness and the US despite a near media blackout on the camp, and it got really real.
Water Protectors 36:34
[Water Protectors Battle Screams]
Voice On Megaphone 36:38
[Voice on megaphone] Yesterday was more like a War Zone than the site of a protest of the construction of a pipeline.
Water Protectors 36:49
Tring to kill people!
Voice On Megaphone 36:52
More than 300 officers, all-terrain vehicles, armored cars, and military grade humvees, helicopters, at least one airplane operating the action.
Protestor Recordings 37:00
WE ARE UNARMED! WE ARE CIVILIANS!
Adam Huggins 37:10
It's hard to separate Standing Rock from the volatile political environment of 2016. And the stark policy reversals that took place when the Trump administration got underway. One of the first executive actions they took, right, was to reverse the Obama administration's block on the Dakota Access Pipeline, which was eventually built and is now in operation and scheduled to be doubled.
Mendel Skulski 37:36
Really?
Adam Huggins 37:37
Yeah. A move which the Standing Rock Sioux are currently fighting. At the time, though, back there in 2017, it felt like a punch in the gut, and a real bellwether for where we were headed.
Mendel Skulski 37:48
I would I would say it still does.
Adam Huggins 37:50
But one major outcome of Standing Rock was that settlers who participated in the camp, went back home and started forming relationships with the indigenous peoples whose territory they lived on, often for the very first time. Tons of people from the Bay Area raised money for Standing Rock and participated in the camp, which of course Corrina supported.
Corrina Gould 38:10
But also to say, you're also on Ohlone land. And what are you doing to create relationships with those folks? What percentage are you going to give to the work that they're doing here already? And it made people begin to question what they were doing. And it created a lot of relationships for the Sogorea Te' Land Trust.
Johnella LaRose 38:30
And we already had the Land Trust. We already had the movie "Beyond Recognition." We already had that. But, and then, then here comes Gavin… Haleh.
Mendel Skulski 38:41
Okay, wait, who is Gavin?
Adam Huggins 38:44
Right. Because this is a podcast, you haven't been able to see Gavin, but he's been sitting next to Johnella this entire time.
Gavin Raders 38:52
And my name is Gavin Raders. I grew up in downtown Los Angeles and I've been living in the East Bay for about 18 years. And my ancestors come from Ireland, Germany, Mexico and Lebanon. And my Mexican Lebanese family moved to Los Angeles in the early 1900s.
Mendel Skulski 39:10
I'm feeling a little left out. I'm basically the only one who hasn't divulged my ancestry on the podcast.
Adam Huggins 39:18
Are you feeling an urge to come clean?
Mendel Skulski 39:21
Uh, my name is Mendel Skulski. And I am the child of Jewish, Eastern European immigrants who come mainly from Poland and Ukraine and emigrated to Canada, largely in the early to mid-20th century.
Adam Huggins 39:40
Thanks for sharing.
Mendel Skulski 39:41
Yeah, I feel better.
Adam Huggins 39:42
Gavin and his partner Haleh, started the Oakland California based Planting Justice.
[Hip hop beat]
Gavin Raders 39:49
Planting Justice is almost 10 years old. We're a nonprofit grassroots organization dedicated to radically transforming our relationship to land and food in a way that uplifts people most impacted by food and economic injustice. We founded the organization with an intent to create family sustaining living wage jobs for formerly incarcerated people, for people coming home from prisons and jails, and so we started by building gardens, backyard, front yard, edible landscapes, for people across the Bay Area. We've done about 450 Garden builds in the past 10 years. Now we're sitting here at a, at a nursery that we acquired from Mark and Corrina up in Orleans, California called the Rolling River Nursery. And there's about 25,000 trees on this property. It's a two acre empty lot in deep East Oakland, in a community that has been systemically disinvested and over policed for 50 years.
Adam Huggins 40:51
He forgot to mention the educational work that they do in schools and prisons and the four acre food forest farm they started in El Sobrante. Which is a part of the that literally means the leftovers in 'Español'.
Mendel Skulski 41:03
That—that's a pretty loaded name. There's a lot going on there.
Adam Huggins 41:08
Yeah. Planting justice is one of the most inspiring organizations around and full disclosure. I put in several stints of work at their nursery grafting fruit trees. Working there was how I found out about Sogorea Te', and where I met Johnella. Gavin and his partner Haleh, they went to Standing Rock too.
[Hip hop beat stops]
Gavin Raders 41:28
Haleh and I brought our kids to Standing Rock as well too. And like Johnella said, it just changes you, you know, and we were, we were called, while we were there, to go home and recognize that all land is sacred. And so we came home to the Bay, knowing that the land that we were working on in El Sobrante, the land that we're working on in East Oakland, that we needed to find ways to re-indigenize the land, you know, and here’s Diane Williams and Johnella and Corrina, these powerful Indigenous women, in our community, coming forward to us saying, you know, we're going to do this with you, and all Haleh and I had to do is say yes. We knew that we wanted to make sure that this land would stay with indigenous people and indigenous stewardship for as long as, as it's here.
[Curious guitar string plucking begins]
Mendel Skulski 42:29
Is it, is it raining? Where are you recording this?
Adam Huggins 42:33
That is rain. We're actually in a greenhouse on the land that Gavin is talking about, at the Rolling River Nursery that planning justice operates. It really is deep East Oakland. You can hear the highway that runs right by there and they have to deal with issues that most nurseries don't experience. Like high speed police chases and burning cars.
Mendel Skulski 42:54
Cars? Plural cars?
Adam Huggins 42:56
Yes, yes, plural. There have been multiple burning cars at the nursery. But this piece of nondescript cast aside land, actually borders San Leandro Creek and the historic village site of Lisjan.
Johnella LaRose 43:09
This area, like, just beyond those apartment buildings is used to be called San Leandro Creek, but now it's called Lisjan Creek. And so Planting Justice borders the Lisjan Ohlone village and the Huchiun Ohlone village. So it's pretty wild that we're right in this area that, where it just crosses, we're right in the center of it. So—and this is Corrina’s traditional territory. So it couldn't be any wilder than that. It's just like, the creation is like, okay, people you meet and you do this thing. Yeah.
Corrina Gould 43:38
Because it's right along Lisjan Creek. So it's on our territory for sure. It's a half a mile from where I live right now so I can walk there. That there's this piece of land that's, that's been given back that had been a part of us as the Lisjan people since time immemorial and that we have this opportunity to clean that creek. To work with other people that are doing creek restoration to bring salmon and rainbow trout back up there. A way for us to teach about language in that, in that watershed to bring back foods that we can use and talk about with our kids, um, but to also educate the broader folks that live in our territory now.
Adam Huggins 44:26
I spent several months grafting fruit trees on this land, and watching Johnella and Corrina come and go, and work with the Ohlone youth to plant native species, and prepare the ground for a ceremonial Arbor. The idea is to create a place where Ohlone people and people from all backgrounds, indigenous or not, can pray and pass along traditional knowledge. And, uh, and heal.
Johnella LaRose 44:52
In order for us to survive this future, you know, like the coming of whatever's coming towards us, we have to have land. We have to have some traditions. We have to have some culture. We have to have some instructions about how to live. And so I'm not saying that I know all these things, because I don't. But I think together we're really learning. You know, we're really learning how to treat each other, you know? And, and so when we lit the fire back there, the first sacred fire on free Ohlone land in 200 years.
Gavin Raders 45:21
Here at the nursery.
Johnella LaRose 45:21
Right there.
Gavin Raders 45:22
Yeah.
[Guitar plucking picks up pace]
Johnella LaRose 45:23
So there was just a small group of us and the young people from that had gone to Standing Rock and been in those battles that went on October 27, the one on November 20, where everybody was water cannon and all of that. They came and they, they told the story about being there. And so we lit that fire and, um, and I think that was really healing for them. I think we need to do it again. We've done it several times already. But we did it here at Planting Justice. And it was just so beautiful. And so this idea that we're all learning. We're all learning at the same time, and teaching each other, you know, about what it means and what the sacred is.
Mendel Skulski 46:03
So Planting Justice has returned this piece of land to the Ohlone people through the Segorea Te' land trust.
Adam Huggins 46:13
Yeah. And, and this is just the beginning, Corrina and Johnella and their allies and accomplices are eyeing small pieces of marginal land all across Huchiun "Oakland."
Mendel Skulski 46:22
Right.
Adam Huggins 46:23
With the aim of creating a patchwork of Ohlone held land.
Corrina Gould 46:27
In our territory it's all urbanized. And so we have to look at these little plots here and there checkerboarded throughout the territory that conveys this message that this is, this is indigenous territory. This is land that has been retaken care of by indigenous people and stewardship in a different kind of way.
Mendel Skulski 46:48
So how are they actually going to go about getting that land back? I understand that land in the Bay Area is not cheap.
Adam Huggins 46:57
Well, how does any self-respecting nation raise funds to secure land?
Mendel Skulski 47:03
They…tax people?
Adam Huggins 47:07
Precisely.
[Cash register noises, funky jazz riff and man’s voice singing tax man]
Mendel Skulski 47:14
So what do you mean by tax?
[Background noises cease]
Adam Huggins 47:18
Remember our friends at the Wiyot tribe?
Mendel Skulski 47:20
Of course. They took us on a boat to their sacred Island. I'm not forgetting that anytime soon. When, sidebar, the city of Eureka just a couple weeks ago, gave the rest of the island back to the Wiyot. So—huge celebration there.
Adam Huggins 47:39
It's very good news.
Mendel Skulski 47:41
Very good news.
Adam Huggins 47:42
And if you don't know what we're talking about, go back and check out Episode 1.2. Which we've said like three times this episode.
Adam Huggins 47:46
Haha, yeah.
Adam Huggins 47:47
I guess they kind of are a bit of a pair. Anyway, the Wiyot had come up with the idea to ask settler people, for a quote unquote, "honor tax,” to help fundraise to get the original piece of land on Indian Island back. And some settler folks who were involved with Sagorea Te' Land Trust saw this and asked permission to borrow the concept. The idea is simple. If you live on stolen land and benefit from that economically, and there's a tremendous amount of money that's being made in exchange in California, then you should give back as a small way of recognizing this. And thus was born the Shuumi land tax.
Mendel Skulski 48:22
The Shuumi land tax.
Corrina Gould 48:24
We've never been comfortable with the word tax because it comes with this, you know, really bad connotation, but, we couldn't figure out another word. But Shuumi in the Chochenyo language means a gift. And so how can people that live in our territories now participate and being a part of this idea of putting land back into Indigenous women stewardship?
Adam Huggins 48:46
When I asked him about it, Gavin totally acknowledges that just giving land back may not work for everyone.
Gavin Raders 48:52
But in the meantime, there's this other really great strategy that Sogorea Te' Land Trust has of the Schuumi land tax, which Haleh and I pay as renters in the Bay Area. Maybe you can't deed your land to the land trust, but you can recognize that you're living and gardening and taking care of your children on land that was stolen. That was unseeded where there was a genocide not that long ago. And so people are encouraged and we encourage everybody to pay their land tax and you can find that through the Sogorea Te' Land Trust website.
Mendel Skulski 49:24
So-go-rea Te'… here we are. I'm on the website now. And there is a cool territorial map. That's really neat. And the description here which says that the Shuumi land tax is a voluntary annual financial contribution that non indigenous people living on traditional Chochenyo and Karkin Ohlone territory make to support the critical work of the Sogorea Te' Land Trust. This has to be one of the first times that the words voluntary and tax have ever been used in the same sentence.
Adam Huggins 50:09
Keep scrolling.
Mendel Skulski 50:10
Okay, uh, there's a calculator. That's hilarious. So I see. So depending on whether you rent, or if you own property, and the number of bedrooms, it will give you a base level of voluntary monthly tax to pay. Sort of a suggested donation. Not particularly unlike our Patreon. As a as a listener supported podcast, people can support the show patreon.com/futureecologies
Adam Huggins 50:45
Yeah, it's like, it's like Patreon, if you leave out the history of genocide.
Mendel Skulski 50:49
Well, I can't speak for all Patreon campaigns. Was it a bad time to tell folks how they can support the podcast?
Adam Huggins 50:55
There's never a bad time. But if you live in the Bay Area, you should maybe consider paying the Shuumi tax first.
Mendel Skulski 51:02
It's a really neat idea.
Adam Huggins 51:04
And it's the central funding mechanism for the work that Sogorea Te' does.
Mendel Skulski 51:09
I think that the word 'tax'—it still sounds off, right? Like it still has those negative connotations.
Adam Huggins 51:18
Would you prefer a tithe? How about a levy?
Mendel Skulski 51:24
No, sorry.
Adam Huggins 51:25
Excise?
Mendel Skulski 51:27
No.
Adam Huggins 51:27
Toll?
Mendel Skulski 51:28
Umm, Nooo.
Adam Huggins 51:30
Tribute?
Mendel Skulski 51:31
Oh god, this is sounding pretty medieval.
Adam Huggins 51:34
Okay, then how about rent?
Mendel Skulski 51:37
I hate paying rent. I don't really know anybody who loves paying rent. But then again, it kind of has the right implications here, right? This is territory that still belongs to indigenous peoples, right? Especially since there was no treaty at play here. If we are living here, and the people of the bay area are living there, we should pay rent. I can get behind that, I guess.
Adam Huggins 52:04
Then you should hear from my friends Siena. I'm like, personally connected to everyone in the story.
Adam Huggins 52:09
Jesus.
Adam Huggins 52:10
Makes me the worst journalist ever.
Adam Huggins 52:12
Ah, you're gonna discuss that at the end.
Siena Ezekiel 52:15
My name is Siena Ezekiel. I'm part of the Duwamish solidarity group in Seattle. I have grown up here. And so this place is really meaningful to me. And upon returning here as an adult, I realized how little I knew about the long standing indigenous history here. And so I grew a desire to learn more and to get involved.
Mendel Skulski 52:40
Okay, so we were teleported, and we're in Seattle.
Adam Huggins 52:44
Yeah. And much of the area of present day Seattle falls within the traditional territory of the Duwamish tribe. Although chief Seattle of the Duwamish signed a treaty in 1855, with the federal government, guaranteeing reservation land and fishing rights, the government—
Adam Huggins 53:01
Oh, I sense a spoiler.
Adam Huggins 53:02
—did not honor its promises. And the Duwamish like the Ohlone today, lack reservation land and federal recognition. And like the Ohlone, the Duwamish have been in fruitless court proceedings with the federal government over the issue of recognition for longer than either you or I have been alive and have been denied multiple times.
Siena Ezekiel 53:21
To me, it seems like the land was seen so valuable that the Duwamish were not given the reservation, or, you know, their piece of land that they were entitled to through the treaty the other chief signed.
Adam Huggins 53:36
So I actually research this, and it's a, it's a pattern that holds pretty steady up and down the West Coast of the US when it comes to tribes in urban areas. The Duwamish of Seattle, Washington, the Chinook of Portland, Oregon, the Ohlone of the Bay Area, and the Tongva of Los Angeles, all remain unrecognized and largely disenfranchised. The San Diego area with multiple federally recognized tribes seems to be an exception, at least in this respect.
Mendel Skulski 54:05
I see the pattern though, right? Like it, it all comes down to the high value of land around major cities. And when push comes to shove, recognizing these tribes would potentially be a very expensive proposition, right? The land is, is just too valuable to give up.
Adam Huggins 54:25
Which is exactly why normal people living in cities like Siena are working with the tribes to help in any way that they can. The Duwamish solidarity group was basically just playing a supportive role. And then one of the members of the group spontaneously had the idea for a monthly rent that people could pay to the Duwamish.
Mendel Skulski 54:44
So this is independent of the Shuumi Land Tax.
Adam Huggins 54:48
Yeah. And and that's how Real Rent Duwamish was born. I guess this idea is just in the air waiting to be snatched out and put into practice.
Siena Ezekiel 54:57
We want to see the spread. Yes. Which is why it's called Real Rent Duwamish. Because if other people want to use Real Rent, the name or the concept, or evolve it in any way, we would be thrilled to see that. I think there's so much potential for this to spread. There's so many unrecognized tribes and tribes who are recognized who are under-resourced.
Adam Huggins 55:22
Since it started back in 2017, about the time I started working on this episode, almost three and a half thousand people have signed up to be monthly renters.
Mendel Skulski 55:34
That, that's a ton of people. Most people pay their taxes because they don't really want to go to jail and most people pay their rent because they don't want to be evicted. In the best light, this relationship is, is kind of mutual, but it's kind of at its root, it's coercive, right like it's always under threat.
Adam Huggins 55:56
And at the time of such intense political division in the US, it's it's one of the major fault lines that runs through the whole issue, right? Like, have we as citizens been taxed enough already? Or do we, as beneficiaries of, of the system for many walks of life really owe these extraordinary debts that we that we need to try to address?
Mendel Skulski 56:17
Yeah, yeah, this sort of voluntary taxation. There's a strong contrast there to the dominant ideology of tax cuts and trying to try to minimize our social and communal obligations to each other.
Adam Huggins 56:34
Which is probably why the Duwamish solidarity group went with the concept of rent. Slightly less political.
Siena Ezekiel 56:41
Everyone is paying rent or a mortgage or at one time has, so it's really relatable. And what does it mean to pay rent or tax? When you opt into it when you're choosing, what does that mean when you are making that intentional choice? I guess that's actually where you'd like some of your money to go. If you could choose. It's opting into the world you wish existed, or you want to exist and you want to support.
Mendel Skulski 57:14
She's, uh, she's really selling me on this. Even though it's just kind of a reframing of, of a donation, I guess.
Siena Ezekiel 57:23
Yes, exactly. So that the Duwamish tribe has had, you know, a website for many years and a donation button on that website. But now, there's an additional website that invites, I guess it invites donations on almost like a louder platform and a very direct platform kind of telling people why this is needed and why this is just, and invites those donations to be reoccurring.
Mendel Skulski 57:55
So it strikes me that it's really great that Planting Justice and Real Rent Duwamish are stepping in where governments are just failing.
Adam Huggins 58:08
Or succeeding in a long-term strategy of malign neglect.
Mendel Skulski 58:12
Yeah. And, and this is where I'm kind of split. On, on one hand. This is great. And I wonder if some people who might think that they're taxed too much by the government, and really don't trust the government to spend their money wisely or carry out their values, whether they might actually be willing to pay voluntary rent or tax if they understood the circumstances. At the same time, I, I feel like there just won't be meaningful justice for these tribes or really for other disenfranchised groups until our government, our formal institutions, make real apologies and then actual restitution, or, or reparations, or rematriations.
Adam Huggins 59:02
I totally agree. But until then, those of us who know better and can afford to, can pitch into help. And possibly, we can also help show our institutions that more and more people are committed to trying to make things right. Right? To kind of build that political momentum. Also, maybe, you know, we can build something really beautiful together, right now. Why wait?
Adam Huggins 59:39
Speaking of what's possible, Sogorea Te' latest initiative has been to save the West Berkeley Shellmound, one of those 425 shellmounds, which is currently paved over by a parking lot. They, alongside with the city of Berkeley, have actually been fighting developers in court for years to prevent the development of this particular piece of land. And the reason that they're fighting so hard for this site is that it is the oldest recorded village site in the Bay Area.
Corrina Gould 1:00:06
This was the very first village. The very first place human beings lived along the bay in the Bay Area. And so it needs to be important to everyone that now lives here. Isn't it our responsibility to save these the special places? That have direct connection to the very first people that lived here along the bay?
Adam Huggins 1:00:27
And, and as they were going to all these zoning meetings and hearings and court dates, to fight the developers, they realized that they needed to present a vision for what they wanted to see the shellmound become.
Corrina Gould 1:00:37
What we realized was that adults don't have really good imaginations. And that adults could, had seen, this development and all these, you know, plans and looked all sharp and it looked nice. But then we decided to create an alternative vision to put in people's minds of what else could possibly be there. And so we sat down at the computer and created a mound that doesn't actually go into the ground. That would be covered with puppies four months out of the year, that would be bright orange. And that people can walk all the way to the top and look and see the view that my ancestors would have saw 200 years ago at that same place. And to open up the space where Strawberry Creek had always run through there, so that kids could actually play in a creek and actually see what it was like to set up a mini, like, village. So they're trulli houses and an arbor there where people could actually come and dance. To create a space inside of the mound that you could actually sit and see and hear and feel and smell. What it'd been liked to be at a shellmound 200 years ago. To talk about not just the past, Ohlone in the past, which is mostly what people do, but to talk about the resiliency of our people, and how far we've come and what we're doing now. And so to sit, put that out there, that's Chris Walker's work with me, to just imagine something different to take that back to the city. And to say, look, can you imagine this instead? Can you imagine every fourth grader in the Bay Area that has to learn about Ohlone people, to actually have a designated place to go to actually see those things and to feel it and to be a part of it.
Mendel Skulski 1:02:18
Wow. That is beautiful. It's so nice to, to hear about a vision of a modern culture reabsorbing a shellmound for those kinds of community building purposes, right? A new application for it. A revitalization of this place, that honors what it was and what it what it could be.
Adam Huggins 1:02:46
Mm hmm. Like, a museum isn't maybe not the right word, but like a living museum that is also a place for cultural regeneration. Even like a visitor info center you know? Like, all of those those things like wrapped up in one. Yeah. And okay, so this just in. Only two weeks ago now, an Alameda superior court judge ruled against the developers in court, which is a major victory for the Sogorea Te' Land Trust. And this time, maybe not just a bittersweet victory. The vision actually may come to pass. Although, of course, people are going to have to get behind it.
Mendel Skulski 1:03:21
Mm hmm. So I just have one last question. It's been kind of a running conversation ever since the first episode of this podcast about how those of us who find ourselves living or traveling in territory that is not our own, at least in a deep historical sense. How can we live in in recognition of this, but also, in recognition of the simple truth that many of us really have nowhere else we call home? Nowhere else to go?
Adam Huggins 1:04:00
Hmm. I, I talked to Corinne at length about actually, this this very question, because I had ... I had so I had, I had brought her some roasted Bay Nuts as a gift. So actually, I brought you some Bay Nuts.
Adam Huggins 1:04:15
Oh, thank you.
Adam Huggins 1:04:15
They're roasted and delicious.
Corrina Gould 1:04:17
Oh, no.
Adam Huggins 1:04:17
Yeah, no, you like them?
Corrina Gould 1:04:18
Yes! [Loud joyous laugh]
Mendel Skulski 1:04:21
You brought some of those to me too. And they are incredible.
Adam Huggins 1:04:25
Yeah.
Mendel Skulski 1:04:25
Every time I meet somebody from the Bay Area, who I like, think is on the level, I'm like, "have you tried Bay Nuts?" And they're like, "have I tried Bay Nuts?!" [Laughter] Yeah, it's awesome.
Adam Huggins 1:04:35
Okay, so obviously we're both enthusiastic about Bay Nuts.
Mendel Skulski 1:04:39
Nuts for Bay Nuts.
Adam Huggins 1:04:41
And in my enthusiasm for gathering some of this delicious treat that I miss so much when I'm not in California. Um, I had actually totally forgotten everything that we talked with Cease Wyss about, way back in episode one about getting in touch with the people, the land, first. So I actually, I asked Corinne how she felt about it.
[Uplifting string plucking begins]
Corrina Gould 1:05:03
People take advantage and take for granted their relationships with land anywhere they go. So we're in this time where you can jump on a plane or a train or a bus and cross territories all over the place, and not have to acknowledge anybody. You can drop into New York and never talk to the original people of that land and ask permission to be there. And so what is that about? That we forget our very own roots as human beings of what is good manners, right? And so I'll talk about a couple of hundred years ago. That people actually knew what those territorial boundaries were. And even if you were another Ohlone person, you know whose family or whose tribe took care of which lands. And that you would stop at the edge of that territory, and you would put up a smoke fire, and you would wait for someone to come and get you and then they would bring you back to the main village, and they would feast you and gift you and maybe gamble with you. And then finally have the conversation about why you were there, and why do you wanted to go through their territory. And it may be just to visit, or maybe because you needed to collect medicine, or maybe because you needed to go to a village farther away, and that you needed to have that permission to go through there. But it was never taken for granted that you had that permission. And that today, we have this idea, you know, as individuals that we have the right to do anything we want. We were talking about to Tuyshtak, and how people feel like they have the right to just go to the very top of our most sacred mountain. And that even us as Ohlone people cannot go to the top of that mountain. That only our special medicine people were allowed up there during certain parts of the year in order to do the ceremonies that we needed to have done in order to bring balance to this place. But people never think outside of their own individual selves to, to think that they have to ask permission from anyone. And not just that we represent not only ourselves, but we represent a nation of people, not just now, but a nation of people from the past. And that nation of people that's in the future. And so we're just a bridge for those folks. And so, to really ask yourselves, as, I guess, as human beings, it's like, what right do I have to go into someone else's territories, and to take food without asking permission? Or to ask them if this is the place where they forage for food, because maybe it's a place that a family is taking care and stewarding so that then it becomes a relationship. It's like, I would like to steward this land with you. And then we could share the food together. It's different way of thinking about it. It's like, oh, I'm not just here by myself, but that there's other people that could be taking food from here as well. And so really, to think about that, I think is that we have to change our concept of how we think of things. And I think what I say is that you have to go backwards in order to go forwards right now. We have to think about what our ancestors would have done, all of our ancestors and how we could make it better going into the future.
[Uplifting arps increase in volume for half a minute, Music shifts to uplifting electronic sequence]
Adam Huggins 1:09:10
Thanks for listening. If you'd like to learn more about the Sogorea Te' Land Trust and pay your Shuumi tax, go to sogoreate-landtrust.org that's s-o-g-o-r-e-a-t-e/landtrust.org. Or if you live in Seattle, check out realrentduwamish.org to pay your rent. Eureka listeners, you can find the Wiyot's honor tax at honortax.org. Finally, visit shellmound.org to learn more about the West Berkeley Shellmound and how you can help that vision become a reality. This episode of Future Ecologies was produced by myself, Adam Huggins.
Mendel Skulski 1:09:49
And me, Mendel Skulski.
Adam Huggins 1:09:51
We'll be back next month on the second Wednesday. Tell your close friends or anyone who you think might like what we do. Subscribe, rate and review the show wherever podcasts can be found. It really helps us get the word out.
Mendel Skulski 1:10:04
In this episode you heard: Corrina Gould, Johnella LaRose, Gavin Raiders, and Siena Ezekiel.
Adam Huggins 1:10:12
Special thanks to Ilana Fonariov, Gabin Raders, Siena Ezekiel, the entire staff at Planting Justice, the Access to Media Education Society, and Simone Miller.
Mendel Skulski 1:10:22
Music in this episode was produced by Spencer W. Stewart, Leucrocuta, Ben Hamilton, Valsi, Jose Guzman, Sunfish Moon Light, Hildegard's Ghost, Cat Can Do, and music from the Project Gutenberg library. This has been an independent production of Future Ecologies. Our second season is supported by our generous patrons. If you like what we do, and you want to help us make the show, you can support us on Patreon. Patrons get cool swag, and an exclusive bonus mini episode every month. This season, I'm hosting a tour of the kingdom fungi. To support us and get access to these exclusive episodes, head over to patreon.com/futureecologies.
[Vocals begin singing over tune]
Adam Huggins 1:11:04
You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and iNaturalist. The handle is always Future Ecologies. You can find a full list of musical credits, show notes, and links on our website futureecologies.net
Mendel Skulski 1:11:16
Thanks for listening.
Introduction Voiceover 1:11:24
You are now listening to Future Ecologies ASMR.
Mendel Skulski 1:11:30
So in the spirit of harvesting in your territory, I have a fruit for us to eat. I'll be right back.
Adam Huggins 1:11:42
Oh, so excited... We have a fruit?
Mendel Skulski 1:11:46
Yeah, I'm wondering if you recognize this.
Adam Huggins 1:11:57
Yesss, I know exactly what these are. These are the fruits of the so-called strawberry tree.
Mendel Skulski 1:12:05
Yes!
Adam Huggins 1:12:06
Arbutus unito.
Mendel Skulski 1:12:07
Yes.
Adam Huggins 1:12:08
Which is a relative of our native madrone tree.
Mendel Skulski 1:12:12
Exactly.
Adam Huggins 1:12:12
But, which has been planted by landscapers literally all across the west.
Mendel Skulski 1:12:16
It, yeah, is surprisingly common on the streets or on the sea wall as the as the case may be.
Adam Huggins 1:12:22
But I haven't had the fruits in a while because when I first found out that they were edible, I like binged on them so hard that I never wanted to eat one ever again after that, that like summertime, you know.
Mendel Skulski 1:12:32
I hope this isn't a traumatic experience for you.
Adam Huggins 1:12:34
Ah, No! They are. Okay, so these are the funniest little like, they have a really weird, oh my god, they're all mushy.
Adam Huggins 1:12:43
They got a little cold on the way over.
Adam Huggins 1:12:44
Cold and mushy.
Adam Huggins 1:12:44
Yeah. Sorry.
Adam Huggins 1:12:45
Oh, my god, they're cold and mushy. [Laughs]
Mendel Skulski 1:12:46
[Laughs] They're kind of the texture of like, if a plum was just a little bit over ripe and went all mushy, but it's the this entire thing.
Adam Huggins 1:12:58
Okay, let's go to try. Hmm.
Mendel Skulski 1:13:09
Mm hmm.
Adam Huggins 1:13:10
You know what? There's so much better than I remember them. They are.
Mendel Skulski 1:13:15
It's nice that they don't...
Adam Huggins 1:13:16
I think I just overindulged that one time. You know?
Mendel Skulski 1:13:18
It's like they don't have a pit. You know, it's just one big just, just pure unit. Pop the whole thing and not worry about it.
Adam Huggins 1:13:25
Oh, they're so gooey.
Mendel Skulski 1:13:27
Yeah, these guys were maybe a little bit over.
Adam Huggins 1:13:29
Hmm. Oh yeah, this one's a little alcoholic.
Mendel Skulski 1:13:32
[Laughs] Shut up and eat the fruit.
Mendel Skulski 1:13:43
I gotta say, I like the fermented ones.
Mendel Skulski 1:13:54
Oh my god, its just goo inside.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai, and edited by Felipe Ocampo & Victoria Kline